Friday 11 November 2011

Religion and Science- Part 2



 It’s hard to believe anything unless we personally experience it or understand it by doing some research on it”. These days I started believing in Hinduism after doing some research on it but that doesn’t mean I have become religious because the truth is Hinduism itself is not a religion as many of us think. It’s a way of life and I believe in it because “it’s more scientific than what we think” but not everything. 

I think our modern scientists will take several more centuries to discover things that had been already discovered by our ancient indians thousands of years ago. All Egyptians,Indians,Greeks ,mayans and several other community people had contributed so much to the world several ages ago which was neglected by many modern scientists but now a few of our scientists started realizing its value and they are scrutinizing the ancient scriptures for reference.

The oldest literature of Indian thought is the Veda(Veda means knowledge).These Veda  scriptures were written by various authors (including 21 female authors)  over several generations. It indeed went into the hands of  bunch of misogynists and other people who had revised it according to their convenience but everything in this world has both good and bad sides. I think it’s always better to take only good things of it rather than completely ignoring it. There are also other scriptures such as Vedanta,maha baratha, purana ,manu sastra etc...but I personally believe in veda than any other texts as I find it to be more accurate.

I would like to point out a few words said by some great scientists about these scriptures of Hinduism.

When I read the explanation in Bagavadgita about how universe was created, everything else looks superfluous”. Albert Einstein,The great physicist who developed the theory of general relativity.



‘In all world there is no kind of framework within which we can find consciousness in the plural; this is simply something we construct because of the temporal plurality of individuals, but it is a false construction. The only solution to this conflict in so far as any is available to us at all lies in the ancient wisdom of the Upanishad”… by Erwin Rudolf Josef Alexander Schrödinger who was the one of the fathers of quantum mechanics.

"The Hindu religion is the only one of the world's great faiths dedicated to the idea that the Cosmos itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite, number of deaths and rebirths. By Carl sagan, the famous physicist.

“What we shall find in Modern Physics is an exemplification, an encouragement and a refinement of old Hindu wisdom.”.. by Robert Julius Oppenheimer who was the father of atomic bomb.

"To the philosophers of India, however, ‘Theory of Relativity’ is no new discovery, just as the concept of light years is no matter for astonishment to people used to thinking of time in millions of kalpas, (one kalpa is about 4,320,000 years)."- by Alan Watts, an eminent English philosopher.

 “Every subatomic particle not only performs an energy dance, but also “is an energy dance”;  a pulsating process of creation and destruction, without end. For the modern physicists, then Shiva's dance is the dance of subatomic matter. As in Hindu mythology, it is a continual dance of creation and destruction involving the whole cosmos; the basis of all existence and of all natural phenomena." He further adds "Modern physics pictures matter, not as passive and inert, but as continuously dancing and vibrating. This is very much like the Eastern mystics description of the world. Both emphasize that the universe has to be grasped dynamically. It structures are not static, rigid ones, but should be seen in terms of dynamic equilibrium.”
by Fritjof Capra is a physicist,founding director of the Center for Ecoliteracy in Berkeley, California.

Does anyone know that CERN, The European Organization for Nuclear Research, Switzerland houses a huge statue of Natraja, the symbolic depiction of Lord Shiva who performs his cosmic dance to destroy the universe ? It’s a 2m tall statue of the Indian deity which was gifted to CERN by Indian govt to celebrate the research center's association with India.




Not many people know that speed of light was already calculated several centuries before our modern scientists discovered it. Here is the calculation part.


Anyone who knows about the recent string theory which is all about vibration of universe would agree with the fact that Hinduism has said this long ago .As we all know for centuries that the vedic hymn ‘OM’ represents the Universal Vibration.

The law of conservation of energy says energy can neither be created nor be destroyed. Krishna in bagavadgita said ‘never there was a time when I did not exist nor you nor these kings and never will there be a time when we will cease to be’

I should only blame our education system which din’t include all our ancient scientific discoveries in its syllabus. When Albert Einstein and Oppenheimer had known the importance of our ancient knowledge,we failed to understand our own scientific discoveries. It’s pathetic that we have not even heard of names like patanjali and Panani.



18 comments:

  1. never knew u were into bloggin :) .. brilliant stuff nevertheless :) .. awesome .. keep them comin ..

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  2. wow.... great attempt... good to see a write-up about vedas... :)

    Few queries:

    1. Is this write-up an inspiration from the movie 7am Arivu? Not sarcastic but just curious to know what/who inspired you to share this info...

    2. Hinduism itself is not a religion as many of us think. It’s a way of life -- Sanathana Dharma rite??

    My Comments & Suggestions:

    Correct... vedas would've been contaminated.. but, a good revision for a particular age/decade/point of time, may seem to be/become a bad idea for the forthcoming ages...
    EG: our democracy was framed very long ago... still we find loads of loop holes and try to rectify it... the solution for a particular loop hole now may become a future problem even - coz, everything is temporary. Even a solution is not an exception to it... :)
    Though i don't support those revisions in vedas, but may be, its the way they changed it according to their way of life which prevailed that time..!
    However, The main thing which we need to think about today is "how to save & preserve our existing vedas and the people who've learnt them..."
    FYI, the Atharvana veda is almost getting extinct.. :(
    because i feel, even 1% of true vedas(non-contaminated) will be very helpful!
    Hope the ONE from whom all the very form of vedas & the ONE from whom the true vedic hyms came from is always watching us....!!!!
    Anyways.. All The Best for your future research.. :)

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  3. @Natty : Thanks a lot for your comment :) btw let me answer to ur questions one by one:)

    1. Is this write-up an inspiration from the movie 7am Arivu? Not sarcastic but just curious to know what/who inspired you to share this info...

    Lol..nope:) I was not inspired by any movie to write a blog on this topic but ezham arivu movie indeed motivated me to write the second part of it: P..I was doing some research on this topic for more than 6 months and it was just out of interest …it made me create my own blog :) In fact ezhan arivu movie was released on oct 26th but I started writing my blog even before that :P you can check out Religion and Science-part 1..that was my first post:)

    2. Hinduism itself is not a religion as many of us think. It’s a way of life -- Sanathana Dharma rite??

    Yes...Hinduism is not a religion at all. If I’m not wrong the term ‘Hinduism’ was not used in any of these scriptures. The real name of Hinduism is Sanatana Dharma. It was not considered as a religion until some foreigners invaded our country. People who lived near Sindu river were called as Hindus by those invaders (I think they must have called them as Sindu people which was then rephrased as hindus).

    You say 'vedas would've been contaminated… but, a good revision for a particular age/decade/point of time, may seem to be/become a bad idea for the forthcoming ages' but I don’t totally agree with this. There might have been a good revision..I’m not denying it but do you know about the quotes against women and caste system in Rigveda ? It’s an absolute non sense…The Rigveda has quotes in favor of women and it says they should be treated with high respect and vedic education is must for every woman but other verse in the same rig veda explains about how sinful they are…it says women should not chant Vedas. It’s ridiculous to say that because some hyms were indeed composed by women themselves in those days …there are so many things like this..according to my logic, Hinduism was written by multiple authors over several generations and it was contaminated by some narrow minded people..since Vedas are like ocean they were not able to replace their version so that they included some non sense..That must be the reason for all contradictions... It’s purely the invention of later vedic society. We can’t expect everyone who had written Vedas to be the perfect ones as it was written by human beings only…I should also say a lot of scriptures were wrongly interpreted by some people and most of them don’t know anything about it but just blindly follow their ancestors. If my grand ma asks me to do something and if I ask her why? She doesn’t have any answer..she simply says her mom asked her to do so…this made our people so dumb and the result is obvious now…:(

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  4. your dis-agreement is a good example for the point:
    "a good revision for a particular age/decade/point of time, may seem to be/become a bad idea for the forthcoming ages"

    Have you read this blog?

    Part1: http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2011/08/should-women-not-chant-vedas-part-1.html

    Part2: http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2011/08/should-women-not-chant-vedas-part-2.html

    Part3:
    http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2011/08/should-women-not-chant-vedas-part-3.html

    Part4:
    http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2011/08/should-women-not-chant-vedas-part-4.html

    Part5:
    http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2011/08/should-women-not-chant-vedas-part-5.html

    Queries:

    1. "do you know about the quotes against women and caste system in Rigveda?"
    "vedic education is must for every woman but other verse in the same rig veda explains about how sinful they are"
    Not sure from where was is taken... please let me know the exact quotes against women in Rigveda(may be in sanskrit or grantham)... i'll try my best to clarify you on that part...
    2. "It’s ridiculous to say that because some hyms were indeed composed by women themselves in those days" -- please let me know which women composed vedas.. :)
    3. "there are so many things like this..according to my logic" -- good.. let me know so that we can discuss deeper on it.. :)
    4. "We can’t expect everyone who had written Vedas to be the perfect ones as it was written by human beings only" -- By human beings, do you mean geevaatma??

    My Comments :
    Every geevaatma and paramaatma would look like human beings in this world. We can't differentiate them physically.. and we can't understand them by their way of life/expression/action...
    paramaatma is one who is born in this world to enlighten geevaatma and take them to GOD(again a paramaatma)...
    vedas are learnt and chanted to understand the same paramaatma(GOD)... Hence it is the paramaatmas who would've written/told vedas and not geevatma...
    Eg: Sukha Brahmam's recital of bhagavatham to Parikshit... Not sure if you are aware of that incident... :)

    VERY IMPORTANT: There may be several questions that may arise from my comments. But before you question, please understand that, every being is different by its own atma... Atma becomes different mainly by the karma it does...
    More then physical differences, we are all different by atma... In fact, i feel, HE has very much confused us and prevented us from finding our real difference by bestowing us with unique human forms... Only if we can understand that, we can even think about proceeding to understand about atama, geevaatma, paramaatma, and all other jargons in this context.. :)

    Please don't ask me about karma, how different atma is based upon karma, etc.. etc.. In 24 years, i could deduce only this much..
    We can get answers to all the questions on atma, karma, etc.. etc.. within this lifetime if we can control the 5 pulangal and our senses... If we need to control these things, we need to renounce this world.. which as of now i feel, i can't
    Renounciation doesn't mean sanyasa.. It means giving up/refusing...

    Though these deductions paves way to attain paramaatma by renouncing, there is a short cut to attain it! which is Bakthi, Prema, etc... etc...
    I don't want to discuss about Bakthi as we may divert from the topic of study.. :)

    Finally, i feel, its all just a brilliant and a creative game... :)

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  5. True even I feel the same, we failed to inherit such great knowledge and our system include them in schools :(

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  6. To give a small clarity to my previous post:

    Geevatma -- learns vedas and tries to understand...!
    Paramaatma -- the ONE from whom the vedic hyms originated...!

    and yea my opinion on imparting vedas in schools:
    I would prefer vedas to be preserved and imparted only to people who are adikaari of learning it...
    If a normal book even has preface, who need to learn it, how to learn it, who is eligible to learn it etc..., why not a book like vedas? :)
    As far as i know, normal slokhas like vishnu sahasranaamam, lalitha sahasranaamam, etc.. can be included as they do not have any such criteria/formality for learn them..

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  7. Nice links:) I have read something similar to this...btw

    Hymns against Women in Rigveda

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Hinduism#Women_in_Rig_Vedic_hymns

    I think I haven’t described it properly in my previous reply.Actually the women in Rigveda period had enjoyed the freedom and they were highly respected in society but everything slowly changed when narrow minded misogynists like Manu and Kautilya had written their own laws and made people believe that those laws belong to Vedas.I think this is how Vedas got contaminated. Manu smiriti ,artha sastra and some other scriptures imposed so many restrictions on women and other caste people.

    You can check out this link http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/226/6/06_chapter2.pdf

    Women who composed or wrote Vedas

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishi#Female_Rishis_.28Rishikas.29

    http://www.trsiyengar.com/id282.shtml

    "We can’t expect everyone who had written Vedas to be the perfect one as it was written by human beings only"

    Yes! I don’t find any difference between paramatma and jivaatma. I still believe only human beings wrote Vedas. I request you to read my first post so that you could get an idea about what I’m trying to say. I have written about my views on God and Hinduism. According to me, all of us are paramatmas but we haven’t yet realized it. Those who realized it wrote Vedas. That’s the only difference.

    Our ancestors preferred to close their eyes and look into the universe than looking into it with their eyes open...That way they made a connection with the outer universe through which they found out all the secrets and wrote vedas. This state could be attained by any of us through some techniques like meditation and yoga. It might sound silly but I can give you the scientific explanation.

    All these answers are hidden in quantum Mechanics. When a quantum levitation and quantum teleportation with our subatomic particles like electron are possible then I think it’s definitely possible with normal human beings. When identical electrons can communicate even if they are several light years away from each other then I think normal human being can also do the same. These are all already written in our scriptures. Our scriptures say Transcendental Meditation allows us to levitate. Teleportation is something in which a thing completely disappears from one place and appears in some other place. Our Lord Krishna was able to teleport.

    To make it simple. The recent ezham arivu movies says about hypnotism. It’s not possible with human beings now but it was an art taught by bodhidarman to his disciples. So we are all paramatmas but we have not yet realized it because we haven’t yet learned that art of reaching that paramatma state…

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  8. @Natty : What do u mean by athikari? We are all the remnants of supernova and those stars created by big bang came from singularity..That singularity is called Lord vishnu in Hinduism.. so we were all created by Vishnu(Singularity or pure energy)...how could we differ? Our atma is nothing but energy.. These energy can be neither created nor be destroyed but could be recycled...We were all created from the same energy... So all Human beings r athikaris... Veda means knowledge.. vedas can be taught to any1 who s willing to learn it..I think the concept "vedas should be taught only to athikaris" came during chanakya's period...they dint mention anything like this in vedas...

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  9. @Natty: I previously mentioned that manu was a misogynist but it looks like the laws against women in Manu Smiriti were included into the text by other misogynists.The original manu smiriti contains the verses that actually glorify women it seems:)

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  10. Read your previous blog. your assumptions like "Lord Vishnu represents the pure energy form" , "let’s assume like pure energy existed" etc.. are great and your interpretation based upon your assumptions are appreciated.

    Read the link that you posted about the rishikas(female rishi).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishi#Female_Rishis_.28Rishikas.29

    Rishikas are the wives of the maharishi's who lived during those times.
    few examples:
    Lopamudra - wife of the sage Agastya
    "A hymn in the Rigveda is attributed to her" clearly means that, a hymn is dedicated to her and she has not written any vedic hymns...
    SOURCE : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lopamudra

    Kadru - wife of Kashyapa
    "The Rig Veda, in the tenth Mandala, contains a hymn in which they sing to each other"
    doesn't mean that yama and yami has sung and written some vedic hymns. It means, they'd had a conversation about something and some1 else had written about those things. :)
    SOURCE:
    1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadru
    2. http://www.indianetzone.com/45/hymns_on_yama_yami.htm

    Similar explanations follow for the other Rishikas too... According to our discussion about female(learning vedas), we need to understand that, "a female prohibited to learn vedas" doesn't mean that they are considered down in the society.
    By nature a female character is soft, both physically and mentally and she is the only being capable of creating a new human life(children). As a female is soft, she can't withstand the effect of vibrations caused by chanting the vedic hymns and finally she would lose her capability of creating a new life which becomes a threat to the human race! If we start imparting Veda to women now, we may not feel its effect immediately. But only when it becomes a threat, we will realise its effect. Hence they are prohibited to learn vedas. :)
    In general for both good/bad actions, its good/bad effect is known only in the course of time and not immediately. We call vedas also as "veda matha".. we also call this earth as "mother earth".. A female as a mother has so much respect than a man.
    Hence, there is no female author for vedas. I'm open to help you out for further queries about this...

    My next comment on this will be about the explanation on jivaatma and paramaatma.. :)

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  11. "Yes! I don’t find any difference between paramatma and jivaatma. I still believe only human beings wrote Vedas"
    Yes. you can't find any difference, because both the aatma's will have the same human(male/female) form like 1 eyes, 1 nose, 1 mouth, etc.. :)
    "According to me, all of us are paramatmas but we haven’t yet realized it"
    Yes. all of us will become paramaatma's after realization of the SELF. But until we realize it, we are jivaatmas. You are correct that, we have not realised our SELF.. Hence we are Jivaatmas.A jivaatma becomes a paramaatma after that SELF realization.
    "Our ancestors preferred to close their eyes and look into the universe than looking into it with their eyes open..."
    When we open our eyes, everything seem to be unreal and temporary including our physical body! So they had to close their eyes to realize the reality.
    "All these answers are hidden in quantum Mechanics. When a quantum levitation and quantum teleportation with our subatomic particles like electron are possible then I think it’s definitely possible with normal human beings."
    you are correct.. it is possible... :)
    "To make it simple. The recent ezham arivu movies says about hypnotism. It’s not possible with human beings now but it was an art taught by bodhidarman to his disciples.So we are all paramatmas but we have not yet realized it because we haven’t yet learned that art of reaching that paramatma state…"
    Yes. bodhidarman was a guru to his desciples. he would've taught them about many things, and yea they are pramaatmas. If you see in china, most of those people who would've learnt those things are monk's.
    YES. and even as per your comments, for an aatma to change from jivaatma to paramaatma, it needs a guru's help!
    Jivaatma and paramaatma difference is not about being a human being or not... Both jivaatma and patamaatma, in this earth, can take the human form! Meditation and yoga are also a part of the karma anushtaanas that a man does.. Hence i'd said Jivaatma and paramaatma are differentiated by its karma.
    An atma can't move from the jivaatma state to paramaatma state immediately. This happens only in the course of time based on the actions that we do. The Final effect that we get while performing our karma with sincerity, dedication, sacrifice, concentration, etc.. is the change of state from jivaatma to paramaatma. :)
    As i've already mentioned that, we can realise the effect of any actions only in the course of time and not immediately. Same concept applies to the karma also.

    My next comment would be the explanation about adikaari! :)

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  12. "we were all created by Vishnu" - yes. but we are unique..
    "how could we differ?" - based upon the karma that we do...
    "Our atma is nothing but energy.. These energy can be neither created nor be destroyed but could be recycled" - fine... explaining in your terms, the recycling is possible based upon its(aatma) karma... So again an aatma is differentiated based upon its karma only! whether it becomes an adikaari or not is based upon its karma in its previous birth. whether it becomes a jivaatma or paramaatma is also based upon its karma only.
    To explain in simple terms, out of 100%, whether you get 30% or 40% or 60% or 80% or even 100% is based upon your overall performance... The one who gets 30% is also a student, the who gets 40% is also a student and a student who gets 100% is also a student. But only the students who gets 40% would get a PASS and becomes an adikaari to goto the next level. Only the student who gets 100% becomes an adikaari of the Ist rank. You can't expect any partiality/grace marks here... :P
    Not sure if the above is a good/bad example, but i felt i could try to make you understand about adikaari using that example... :)

    Awaiting more questions/comments/explanations/explorations based upon my comments... :)

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  13. Just got around to reading your blog, haven't read the previous blogs yet, but nice work put in I say and looks promising. I am sure there is a lot of content to be dug out. Do not just limit yourself to the internet, I am sure there are plenty of books that might give a deeper insight.
    I particularly agree to the point that Veda's are a creation of human and over time got perfected and/or degraded.

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  14. @Ram: Yes.. They were also human beings... As far as i know out of all the living beings on earth, only human beings have the 6th sense(sense of Thinking..) :)
    Hence the great men who wrote vedas would've been humans only!
    My opinion, their energy levels were different when compared to us! And that energy level(paramaatma state) can't be easily understood/differentiated in words. The only way to understand that level is to either realize it or believe in it... :)
    @srividhya: Again.. YES.. anybody can achieve that energy level! Every aatma(energy) is associated with the karma(work) it does...
    But it all matters on the amount(capacity) of sacrifice, hard work, dedication, sincerity, etc... we(our energy) have in achieving that energy level.. :)
    Though i don't have any proof for you as of now on any vedic books about association of aatma and karma, you can assume it like
    if Aatma --> Energy
    Karma --> Work
    Then Power is the outcome of the work done by that energy within the stipulated/bounded time limits(life time). That power would be then given back to that energy and the cycle continues.
    Hence, more work, more power, more energy...
    Jivaatma --> energy which has to do work to gain more power...
    Paramaatma --> energy which has already gained 100% power...
    Both the energy will(should) have the same human form. But the energy level would be different.
    According to the energy levels(aatma) their amount of work(karma) will be decided and according to that(amount of work), the power which they are capable of gaining would be decided. Hence, while the energy(aatma) is doing some work(karma), it would have gained/lost its power. Once the energy completes its work within the bouded time(life time), the gained/lost power would again be transformed into energy using the below equation.
    New Energy = Old Energy + Gain/Lost Power(in previous birth)
    Based upon the above simple logic, an aatma's(energy) next birth would be decided. Hence the cycle continuous. All the above calculations are based upon the time! That's why we say, "time never die". The ONE who has WON over time and made it 0 will be the Omnipotent and Omnipresent and HE will have infinite energy/power!
    Frankly, All these scriptures are not science. But Science has originated from these scriptures. Hope you understood the difference.. :)
    I'm really poor in science... if i were wrong, Please correct me... :P

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